Moderator contact thread archive
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Moderator9 Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 22 Jan 06 Posts: 1014 Credit: 0 RAC: 0 |
EDIT - just tested this and if you click on the "X" at the bottom of the post it will do exactly what you are asking for. The entire discussion is available in the resolved issues thread here As we handle them they are all moved there so people can see what was done. As I mentioned in the instructions for this thread, it is more of a work queue for the moderators, and we want people to be able to quickly see the active issues. I put this same link in the final post on the issue furthur down this list. Moderator9 ROSETTA@home FAQ Moderator Contact ID: 9992 · Rating: 0 · rate:
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Moderator9 Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 22 Jan 06 Posts: 1014 Credit: 0 RAC: 0 |
I know this will get deleted, but PLEASE! Some people view the lists most recent first some oldest first. It is important for them to see the instructions. If you disagree I can try something different. Any ideas? I am not going to delete this but I will move it to the moderators corner thread located here in the cafe. Moderator9 ROSETTA@home FAQ Moderator Contact ID: 9993 · Rating: 0 · rate:
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Moderator9 Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 22 Jan 06 Posts: 1014 Credit: 0 RAC: 0 |
I'm getting just slightly annoyed that so many posts are getting moved around between threads. Part of what I was asked to do was to reorganize some of the disorder. Most posts are left right where you left them. But I will move posts, particularly in the stickys, that are either off topic, or cluttering the thread such that David Kim and David baker can't find exactly what they want to see very quickly. I have made a number of stickys to put this information where they can find it. Each of those stickys has a specific purpose. When people clutter them with off topic material, I will move it. A perfect example of this type of clutter is your post in the Max time sticky. They want people to report a very specific set of information. For that purpose people need to have instructions. Some people view the threads most recent message first others oldest message first. So I put the instructions at both ends of the thread. I have been moving all message that are not reports of Max time errors out of the thread. It is not intended to be a discussion forum of the max time problem. There are a lot of other threads for that purpose, and I have not touched them except in one case where I moved a max time report to start the thread. You raised the question about my having added additional instructions to the instructions post in that thread. Someone actually did ask the questions how do I find this information. Not all users know how to do that so I add his questions and the answer to the instructions. His post and my answer are in the thread now, but I will be moving them here. My reply to your question is still there with your question included as well. But it will be moved. I would not have to move it from there if it had been posted here as a question or issue about list moderation. If the lists had been monitored before now to prevent some of these problems the changes would not seem so apparent and/or draconian to you. But there are problems that need to be fixed. That is all that is going on here. As I have mentioned many times, if you find that my work is a problem, there is a direct connection to the program team from the home page where you can bring the issue to their attention. In that regard, I do tell them exactly what I am doing. I also spend a great deal of time explaining to the users what I am doing or responding to questions about things I have done, as I am doing now. This is specifically so people can understand what is going on. A lot more time than any moderator on any list I have participated in. Most moderators do not care what the users think. I do. I am open to ideas. If you have some ideas on how to accomplish the reorganization and clarification of the lists I will listen. Moderator9 ROSETTA@home FAQ Moderator Contact ID: 9995 · Rating: 0 · rate:
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 AngusSend message Joined: 17 Sep 05 Posts: 412 Credit: 321,053 RAC: 0 |
EDIT - just tested this and if you click on the "X" at the bottom of the post it will do exactly what you are asking for. It is NOT a resolved issue - it is only a REPORTED issue. If anything, the issue should be posted with the original question about why people can't see the 'x' and the reason for it at the top of each forum until it is fixed. Or just leave it where it was posted. A question asked by a mod and answered by a user. Peopla are CERTAINLY not going to look in a resolved issues thread for a problem that is still not fixed. Proudly Banned from Predictator@Home and now Cosmology@home as well. Added SETI to the list today. Temporary ban only - so need to work harder :)  "You can't fix stupid" (Ron White) ID: 9996 · Rating: -2 · rate:
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Angus Send message Joined: 17 Sep 05 Posts: 412 Credit: 321,053 RAC: 0 |
I know this will get deleted, but PLEASE! Yes I have an idea - don't keep adding material to old posts. Let the thread flow in chronological order. You now have two complete long posts with exactly the same material in them. How is that not clutter? People KNOW how they have their threads sorted - oldest or newest on top. They don't need to have to read the thread from both ends to find the most recently added information. It just doesn't work that way. Proudly Banned from Predictator@Home and now Cosmology@home as well. Added SETI to the list today. Temporary ban only - so need to work harder :) "You can't fix stupid" (Ron White) ID: 9997 · Rating: -2 · rate:
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Moderator9 Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 22 Jan 06 Posts: 1014 Credit: 0 RAC: 0 |
I know this will get deleted, but PLEASE! I think I have explained what I did and why I did it sufficiently. I will look into it further to see if I can get an answer to achieving the goal I have in mind by some other means, What you have suggested does not do that. Until then I will just have to say I am sorry this irritates you. Moderator9 ROSETTA@home FAQ Moderator Contact ID: 10002 · Rating: 0 · rate:
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Moderator9 Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 22 Jan 06 Posts: 1014 Credit: 0 RAC: 0 |
EDIT - just tested this and if you click on the "X" at the bottom of the post it will do exactly what you are asking for. Actually the original question and the entire thread in its proper context can be found in the thread I have directed you to in the last two posts you made on this issue. As I said before this issue has been reported to the project administrators. Their final word will be posted in the other thread if and when they respond. As an active issue for me to act on it is done until I hear from them. So it does not belong in a to do list. As for rolling the information up into a single post, again I will just have to say I am sorry this bothers you. Edited to repair a link Moderator9 ROSETTA@home FAQ Moderator Contact ID: 10003 · Rating: 0 · rate:
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vavega Send message Joined: 2 Nov 05 Posts: 82 Credit: 519,981 RAC: 0 |
a couple suggestions......... how about posting your brief explanations in red, and make sure you leave a breadcrumb trail ( a link for the moved post) so the poster can find it easily? then set yourself up a spam email account just for this board (which you can freely ignore)  so we can contact you when we need to rant. good idea di, get him further entrenched in a job he doesn't want.....yes, but it'll make his life easier!  ID: 10005 · Rating: 0 · rate:
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Moderator9 Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 22 Jan 06 Posts: 1014 Credit: 0 RAC: 0 |
a couple suggestions......... Thank you. At last some suggestions. 1) Thanks for the suggestion 2) I will explain less but this may also upset people, as being unresponsive 3) They already get an e-mail telling them right where it went with a link to the thread. The system does this automatically. Leaving bread crumbs in the thread defeats the purpose of moving the post out in the first place. 4) I cannot set up e-mail accounts, and that would have the effect of closing what is currently an open process. It is never good to do too much in secret. As to the last. I do not mind the job if it helps the project team out. But posts like yours with suggestions in fact make the job easier. A complaint without a suggestion as to a better way to achieve the same goal is not very useful. Moderator9 ROSETTA@home FAQ Moderator Contact ID: 10026 · Rating: 0 · rate:
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vavega Send message Joined: 2 Nov 05 Posts: 82 Credit: 519,981 RAC: 0 |
Since there is no way for the user community to contact the moderators reliably sorry, the email account i suggested would have solved this problem. sign yourself up for a free email account, like yahoo, aol, gmail, or hotmail, using a name such as "the world's greatest moderator" although i suspect #8 as already beaten you to it post it here but type it in as..... the world's//greatest//moderator//@hotmail.com so the bots won't pick it up. to further reduce spam and to protect yourself, we would have to put into the subject line "rosetta@home username (vavega). then set up an email filter that rejects any email without the words "rostetta @ home " in the title. this way you would know at a glance that it was legitimate mail and could check the username against the member list before opening it, deleting whatever the filter doesn't catch. this protects you and dramaticaly reduces the amount of spam you'll get. it's cheap, easy and should be reliable. use it for those times when you do want private communication since we don't have a private message option. ID: 10074 · Rating: 0 · rate:
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Moderator9 Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 22 Jan 06 Posts: 1014 Credit: 0 RAC: 0 |
Moderator9 said- Since there is no way for the user community to contact the moderators reliably Vavega said- sorry, the email account i suggested would have solved this problem. Yes it would. But a number of people have commented that they do not like to browse about looking for things, and page jumping. So i suspect that sending an e-mail to a post off site might cause some issues. Moreover, they would have to also set up a box to use for this unless they wanted to reveal their address. Don;t get me wrong, I am not saying it is a bad idea, and I thank you for the suggestion. Just talking it over with you. Moderator9 ROSETTA@home FAQ Moderator Contact ID: 10083 · Rating: -1 · rate:
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Fuzzy Hollynoodles Send message Joined: 7 Oct 05 Posts: 234 Credit: 15,020 RAC: 0 |
Excuse me, but hasn't this moderator thing gone a wee bit too far? I mean, the mods are there to prevent things from escalating, but for me it seems like the mods are escalating things right now. Latest with suggested mail adresses, people can mail to, to express how they really feel. If they can't express that directly on the board, then things start to smell like censorship. .oO(Uhhh, I feel a mail telling me that my post has been removed coming on!) [b]"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me[/b] 
ID: 10088 · Rating: 1 · rate:
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Moderator9 Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 22 Jan 06 Posts: 1014 Credit: 0 RAC: 0 |
Fuzzy Hollywood Asked- Excuse me, but hasn't this moderator thing gone a wee bit too far? I mean, the mods are there to prevent things from escalating, but for me it seems like the mods are escalating things right now. Latest with suggested mail adresses, people can mail to, to express how they really feel. If they can't express that directly on the board, then things start to smell like censorship. This is the last detailed explanation I will give on the censorship issue. I will leave it here for a few days so people can see it. Actually the e-mail suggestion was not mine. It came from a user and as I said in my reply, I think the idea has a lot of problems. One is exactly what you have said, the process is no longer open. I do not think that is good. As to the rest of your comments. People have said they have trouble finding things, The most import of those people are the project directors. You are quite correct that I am closely monitoring the stickys I have established. I will continue to do so because they are all there for a specific purpose. In most cases they are not for general discussion on the topic. I have taken moderation action on precisely 4 other threads. In one case I renamed the thread, moved the only post into a new thread and made it a sticky to open a discussion on bandwidth issues that users wanted the project to act on. IE. I brought it to the attention of the project team. Another thread was the, now notiorus, discussion about who the officials here are. That thread had clearly become overheated, off topic and required moderation. People even asked for moderation. I offer the recent post from Paul Buck as evidence of the intensity of that discussion. It has now stopped. In each case messages were sent to the poster indicating where the moved messages could be found, or why something was deleted. Part of your question premise as stated is incomplete. Moderators are also supposed to enforce the rules of the list serve. I do not know if this will be universally understood outside the US, but the project team wants the forums to be "G" rated or at worst "GP". Their words not mine. That means things WILL be removed for cause Just like it says to the left of every text box for every post made by every user- "Don't use obscene language or images, and don't threaten other participants; otherwise we may delete your messages." Lets put this in its true perspective. I have deleted about 26 messages TOTAL (I know because I have kept them all), Some were mine that were no longer needed. I have moved about 50, mostly from here to the archive thread here, so people can read all this stuff later. The others that were moved were mostly to clean out the problem reporting or FAQ stickys so the project people can better see, diagnose and fix the problems people are reporting, and new users can get help. ALL of this is being done under the watchful eye of the project staff. I send them reports of all of this activity every few days. They are aware that this new activity has upset some people, but the lists needed a long overdue cleaning. Some of what I am doing is specifically to address problems people are complaining about in the structure of the forums. Top all that off with a sticky and discussion I started about deleting posts, this direct connection to the moderators thread, and the detailed explanations I have provided to every person who asked about what I am doing and why, and I think you would have to at least agree that I have tried to provide as open a process as I can. Some have argued more open than necessary. A number of people have asked why this thread is in the cafe. Well, it is certainly not about science, it is not about number crunching, so I put it in the area set aside for general discussion on any subject, and posted a note on where to find it in number crunching. People are asking why is the archive (history if you prefer) part of this thread not a sticky. Many of the same people have said there are too many stickys. If people want it as a sticky, I can do that. I scan all the threads, and I have not deleted one single post because of the opinion expressed, even when taunted to do so, unless it was a personal flame that contained inappropriate language or a quote from one. I have encouraged people to contact the project director if they feel they have been wronged in some way. If people use the special purpose sticky areas for the intended purposes, follow the guidance I quoted above as the project standing rules of engagement, and avoid flaming and attacking people personally, they will never have any direct contact from me except to provide help if they ask for it. Edited to repair a link Moderator9 ROSETTA@home FAQ Moderator Contact ID: 10096 · Rating: 0 · rate:
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vavega Send message Joined: 2 Nov 05 Posts: 82 Credit: 519,981 RAC: 0 |
i think our difference thoughts on the usability of an available email address for the moderators is based on our vision of what it would be used for. i'm of a mind that it would be convient for those who want to voice a complaint to a mod without posting. this would serve to head of at the pass if you will, complaints before they get out to the general public. an example would be......poster A doesn't like something i said but would rather remain anonymous as not to upset me, but still has a question. he sends the email to you, you reply with she's a nice lady and of course didn't mean it that way, he believes you, sees the error of his ways and we are all happy campers once again. being he's a wishy washy kind of guy anyway, he already has a spam account of his own, so it's no more work for him. i don't see this as cencoship fuzzy, unless you wan't to extrapolate it into self cencorship and that's fine and dandy. if that were to take place more often we'd all be better off. while in the short term it might seem like things are escalating, in the long term it's this laying of the groundwork that will ultimately make the mods job and ours easier. we'll all know where we stand and i think things will run more smoothly. you're welcome! ID: 10109 · Rating: 0 · rate:
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Angus Send message Joined: 17 Sep 05 Posts: 412 Credit: 321,053 RAC: 0 |
It IS censorship when history (threads are a chronologically correct history of a discussion) is being re-written and re-organized into mod9's personal view of how things should look and what things the forum users need to see. The 'G' rating is a good idea. I don't think heavy-handed editing of threads (outside of the obscene or threatening posts) under the guise of making it easier for the project folks to see what's going on is valid or needed. It would just as efficient for the mods to simply point the project folks to the proper thread or post if something really needed their attention. This whole issue has practically smashed all back and forth discussion on this board. About the only posts being made are the occasional addition to the problem stickies. With only a handful of posts daily, it should not require much re-organization or forum changes to keep an eye on them. Personally, I said yesterday I'm leaving this project for a while. I have run out my queues now, and this project has lost a 4000 RAC participant. I CANNOT stay around here and see this happen to the best BOINC project. We have only a couple of ways to show our displeasure with a project: posting in the forum or by withholding our cycles. With all respect to Paul, it really is the only forms of protest we have. Since voicing displeasure is seeming to fall on deaf ears, I've taken the only other path. My displeasure, my choice. Proudly Banned from Predictator@Home and now Cosmology@home as well. Added SETI to the list today. Temporary ban only - so need to work harder :) "You can't fix stupid" (Ron White) ID: 10111 · Rating: -2 · rate:
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Moderator9 Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 22 Jan 06 Posts: 1014 Credit: 0 RAC: 0 |
Angus wrote-
When posts are move from one thread to another such as what will occur with posts to this thread, they land in the new thread in the exact order in which they were originally posted and they are organized by date, just as they were in the original thread of origin. Even posts I choose (or you demand) be left here for a time and would thus be out of sequence (missing), will be inserted into the "history" thread in their proper order once they are moved. So actually the sooner they get moved the better. If a post is deleted for cause this will cause a "gap". That problem is caused by the posters own choice of language. This date sequence order is not determined by me, and it does not constitute censorship. Since you feel it is important for people to see Paul Bucks comments on many of these issues you may have missed one. With apologies to Paul for taking part of his post out of its context to highlight it here (which by the way IS a form of censorship frequently appearing on these and other boards, so the full text of Pauls comments can be found here.) - "1) I don't see what Moderator9 is doing as censorship. Including those posts of mine moved or deleted. I have long felt that the general "tone" of many of the posts are too, um, "adult" in content. My rule is mostly along the lines of "If you don't want your 6-year old to say it to your mother, spiritual guide, wife, friend, boss, etc."; then it does not belong in a public forum. 2) I have little time, patience or understanding of, and for, those that are unwilling to "volunteer" and "donate" unless everything is on their terms. We should be contributing with an open heart and without conditions. " As I said in this post- What I am doing has been asked for, and as to moving a few posts out of the stickies - "If people use the special purpose sticky areas for the intended purposes, follow the guidance I quoted above as the project standing rules of engagement, and avoid flaming and attacking people personally, they will never have any direct contact from me except to provide help if they ask for it. " Edited to repair a link Moderator9 ROSETTA@home FAQ Moderator Contact ID: 10130 · Rating: 0 · rate:
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Moderator9 Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 22 Jan 06 Posts: 1014 Credit: 0 RAC: 0 |
Vavega wrote - i think our difference thoughts on the usability of an available email address for the moderators is based on our vision of what it would be used for. i'm of a mind that it would be convient for those who want to voice a complaint to a mod without posting. this would serve to head of at the pass if you will, complaints before they get out to the general public. Assuming the project begins to use the "X" box reporting system, this would not be necessary, but you have a VERY valid point here. I will take your idea and send it off to the Project Team and see how they feel about it. Good thought and suggestion, Thank you. Moderator9 ROSETTA@home FAQ Moderator Contact ID: 10131 · Rating: 0 · rate:
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Angus Send message Joined: 17 Sep 05 Posts: 412 Credit: 321,053 RAC: 0 |
Assuming the project begins to use the "X" box reporting system, this would not be necessary, but you have a VERY valid point here. I will take your idea and send it off to the Project Team and see how they feel about it. Good thought and suggestion, Thank you. The fix is documented here on the BOINC Dev list - if the project cares to make the 'x' reporting system work. That's as much as I can do to help it along, without actually patching and compiling their web server code. Proudly Banned from Predictator@Home and now Cosmology@home as well. Added SETI to the list today. Temporary ban only - so need to work harder :) "You can't fix stupid" (Ron White) ID: 10134 · Rating: -2 · rate:
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Moderator9 Volunteer moderator Send message Joined: 22 Jan 06 Posts: 1014 Credit: 0 RAC: 0 |
Angus wrote- Assuming the project begins to use the "X" box reporting system, this would not be necessary, but you have a VERY valid point here. I will take your idea and send it off to the Project Team and see how they feel about it. Good thought and suggestion, Thank you. I sent your previous notations as to the cause of the "X" box visibility problem in a PM to David Kim. I also send him the precise text of the error message you provided when you tested the function. (Thank you for that valuable info by the way, a very high quality bug report). So the project is aware of the problem and said they would contact BOINC about it. Moderator9 ROSETTA@home FAQ Moderator Contact ID: 10136 · Rating: 0 · rate:
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Angus Send message Joined: 17 Sep 05 Posts: 412 Credit: 321,053 RAC: 0 |
Angus wrote- Breaking a thread up into two separate threads, one with your opinion of what is acceptable to the discussion as you want to direct it, and the other for all the posts that don't meet your criteria, IS censorship of the most obvious sort. You create two discussions, neither of which is complete, and only one comforming to your idea of what people need or want to see. from a dictionary: Leaving your favored thread sticky while letting the other sink out of sight is suppression. None of the above has ANYTHING to do with deleting obscene or threatening posts. I'm all for that. Oh- and the definition of "moderator" does not include censorship duties. Proudly Banned from Predictator@Home and now Cosmology@home as well. Added SETI to the list today. Temporary ban only - so need to work harder :) "You can't fix stupid" (Ron White) ID: 10142 · Rating: -2 · rate:
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