That's it. It comes and goes...

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That's it. It comes and goes...

I've removed the post (and repost). Such 'colorful' language doesn't need to be posted here, and it certainly shouldn't be used against another person on the boards.

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Thanks for the acknowledgement, Ethan.

Now- for a slight departure from mellowness:
I can't believe you ex-FaD'rs are still whining about not being able to turn this forum into your personal clone of the FaD forum.

Get over it.

That made me angry. I had over 12,000 posts on that project and spent 42 months there. Look at Grid.org and World Community Grid for similar fora. I also crunched at TSC, United Devices (Grid.org), World Community Grid, and Folding@Home.

When I started my studies at the University of Washington in August of 1964, I arrived with a country boy Southern accent, jeans, T-shirts, and white socks. Angus, other students were just like you.

They would say, "Where are you from?"

I'd reply, "South Carolina" and they'd say, "How did you get here?

I finally learned to say, "I got here on a 100% academic scholarship. How did you get here?"

Now you know one of the reasons this project appealed to me. However, the attitude in Seattle hasn't changed much in 42 years.

Here is the first post that I made after learning that the other project would end. I don't know how such an humble entry could have created such a stir.

Message 2029 - Posted 2 Nov 2005 2:50:49 UTC [Edit this post]
Keith Davies, project director and founder of Find-a-Drug, announced on 1 November 2005: Find-a-Drug to close on 16 December 2005.

The Find-a-Drug project has now processed more queries than the original 250 we envisaged. We have also targetted most of the recognised protein targets for the major project areas. Where we have been able to obtain experimental data to confirm biological activity, the predictions have exceeded our expectations. Smile Our experience suggests that it will be difficult to find collaborators who will be interested in the results of targetting proteins whose biological function is unknown or of little therapeutic interest.

We have concluded that there are insufficient worthwhile protein queries to continue the project into 2006 and have decided to close the project on 16 December 2005. Sad We will continue to make some new queries available over the coming weeks but will not accept results after the close of the project.

We are obviously very grateful for the contributions of members and will continue to work with our collaborators.
_________________
PS I'm the guy in charge of Find-a-Drug
(This means I take all the blame and give all the credit to others)

There are thousands of us looking for a new home and several members are already running Rosetta@home. I am posting here because I didn't see a topic with posts by my old friends who have already joined this project.

Hello to new friends as well as fellow refugees.

(Where is the preview feature?)

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Not all Czech`s bounce but I`d like to try with Barbar ;-)

Make no mistake This IS the TEDDIES TEAM.

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Not all Czech`s bounce but I`d like to try with Barbar ;-)

Make no mistake This IS the TEDDIES TEAM.

Vester -

No one is saying you can't be here, contribute to the forums, and crunch for Rosetta. I'm sure the project and everyone else participating appreciates the power that's brought here.

However - I DO resent the fact that a few of the FaD'rs came in here back around January and made a horrendous row for weeks (maybe months) over why this forum couldn't be changed to be like the FaD forum. Now, almost 8 months later, the SAME topic is brought up again. THAT's what ticked ME off, and why I made the post I did.

The project gets to decide what the forum looks like in form and function, and they've made that decision, and put the moderators in place to keep it this way.

Enough said.

For many of us that spent time at the FaD forums, the community was a major draw. So when the subject of retaining users and bringing back former users comes up, those that associate the comraderie of the FaD forums as a major reason that kept them going back and kept them crunching - they should point out that option.

When in the Future Problem Solvers in high school, they had us perform an activity called brainstorming. They'd present us with a problem, and have us toss out as many ideas as possible. The wilder the idea, the weirder the idea, the more outlandish the idea, the better. It would often inspire other wild ideas from other people in the team. Afterwards, we'd develop criteria and judged the ideas and then graded them, combined them.. etc. But during the brainstorming phase, it's a matter of creating as many ideas as possible.

As this thread points out, there's a lot of room for finding ways to retain Rosetta users, and a need to come up with ways to draw former Rosetta contributors back.

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The brainstorming part is great. Infact Dr. Baker himself admits to getting new ideas from us bouncing ideas off of one another.

However, I don't see how the way these forums are moderated in any way resticts that freedom of creativity.

However, we need to be careful in how we address one another. I've had to bite my toung a few times just to keep peace.

Just a suggestion.

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The brainstorming part is great. Infact Dr. Baker himself admits to getting new ideas from us bouncing ideas off of one another.

However, I don't see how the way these forums are moderated in any way resticts that freedom of creativity.

However, we need to be careful in how we address one another. I've had to bite my toung a few times just to keep peace.

Just a suggestion.

Well feelings are running high about all of this - I stand by the moderation statement purely because our recruitment thread was altered without a word said (other projects I have crunched for might have done the same thing but someone would most likely have dropped me a PM explaining why)
Secondly If you look at the makeup of the forum there are three sections which contain a mishmash of topics. If trouble arises somewhere it means one third of the total forum becomes a battleground rather than a place where users can find the things they need (or just have a chat about something)
Although I think the concept of an integrated forum/project package is a great idea the reality is there are far better forum packages available (with far more features)These are not FaD or UD forums they are just better and less rudimentary and above all ones which users (from anywhere) are more familiar with - Take for example a standard everyday Joe Blogenstein - After he eventually manages to get everything working Boinc/project etc he is pretty proud of himself and decides to come here to tell everyone - He takes one look at this (board) and thinks wow that's a stone-aged looking board I'm not going to have much fun here! - So maybe he doesn't bother posting an introduction but continues running the project 'till it goes wrong - Takes another look at the foum and thinks hmm never mind I'll go elsewhere. That's not to say this forum couldn't be made much better in it's current format simply by adding more areas - Making it easier for users to find pertinant information.
It's always a difficult time when projects get more publicity/go through an expansion phase (seen it before a couple of times) - A difficult time for the original members and the people running it i.e. more queries, more personalities requires more patience in resolving the various issues. You have to decide at the higher levels how you are going to engage with your members - How much time can you spare for a given return? - So it's A trade off of sorts that most members recognise. However if the tools are not available for you to efficiently engage with the majority of them (for instance I had no idea this project doesn't like oc'd machines - Most of my boxes are oc'd up to the max - So should I continue? Is there a tool I can download to test if my machines are producing garbage or not? or perhaps determine an oc/reliability point?) forum/newsletter wise then you are bound to loose people. So I really think the first Boinc project to ditch this forum format and get a half decent well informed community happening will be the most sucseful one by a long way.

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Been there done that?
FaDBeens * Visit The FaDBeens Forum

Angus , there you go again. No one has mentioned FAD , the FADBeens are a Boinc & Rosetta team what has FAD got to do with it ?

Again you show your ill conceived bigotry.

The FACT, which it is in the eyes of most, that these forums need changing is not new but you cannot see beyond your bigotry.

the fact that a few of the FaD'rs came in here back around January and made a horrendous row for weeks (maybe months) over why this forum couldn't be changed to be like the FaD forum.

When we came over,there were a lot of us, we couldn`t find decent information. We were experienced crunchers yet we were struggling, we got few answers and were basically left to find out from our own. The environment here was hostile, sterile and totally lacking in helpful support. It had no community as far as we could see, I don`t think it does now. Things have changed but yes we shouted for those changes, as much as the whingers about optimised clients have shouted. The same way you shout when you feel something isn`t right. Are you trying to say you have the rights but we don`t, cos this is how you come across as biggoted.

Now you are the one taking the argument back to January, no one else. I ask why ?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion even an ex-Fadder. Address the argument not the colour of my skin !

However, I don't see how the way these forums are moderated in any way resticts that freedom of creativity.

They aren`t moderated (as proven for numerous hours yesterday), what happens is the thought Police come along and say we don`t want team threads where jovial behaviour might happen. There is little interaction between teams here, except flamewars, and it`s definately not a place where most users feel they belong. If you like it`s not home, it definately does not promote a family loyalty. There are some people here that want it to remain the same, no changes, no advances cos they run this town (they think), they`re not thinking of the project or are open to new ideas. We don`t like strangers round these parts etc.,

The forum in it`s present form just promotes all serious stuff, nothing wrong with serious stuff but there`s no lightness to the place, therefore the disagreements will reign supreme.

Three central areas alone means that when something like yesterday happens it is all encompassing. There are how many users ? 50,000 ? and just three main headings !

The heading of this thread is "Retaining users - Bringing back former ones", this suggest`s that something is wrong here just by its merit

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Not all Czech`s bounce but I`d like to try with Barbar ;-)

Make no mistake This IS the TEDDIES TEAM.

When we came over,there were a lot of us, we couldn`t find decent information. We were experienced crunchers yet we were struggling, we got few answers and were basically left to find out from our own. The environment here was hostile, sterile and totally lacking in helpful support. It had no community as far as we could see, I don`t think it does now. Things have changed but yes we shouted for those changes, as much as the whingers about optimised clients have shouted. The same way you shout when you feel something isn`t right. Are you trying to say you have the rights but we don`t, cos this is how you come across as biggoted.

...

The forum in it`s present form just promotes all serious stuff, nothing wrong with serious stuff but there`s no lightness to the place, therefore the disagreements will reign supreme.

Three central areas alone means that when something like yesterday happens it is all encompassing. There are how many users ? 50,000 ? and just three main headings !
...

I've been trying to help this project - as my work on the recruit a friend. Unfortionataly, real life and other projects (eg linux.co.uk - NEED MORE CONTENT, need more time!).

But I check in here from time to time, to see that this forum is still cold.

I'm going to talk about FaD a lot... because TBH, I still miss it. And so what? FaD was my introduction to DC, somthing that I've not forgotten. And there were times that it was lurking forums (of which I do a lot) that kept my machines running.

It doesnt really matter where we come from, or what form the forum takes. The three sections don't really help in creating a community. And thats what you need. A community. People who care about each other, care if somebody is down, or hurting. Thats what we had at the FaD boards. Yes, the technology in this forum environment, is to be blunt primative in comparison with some of the other forum packadges out there. But you can still use it to create a viable comunity.

Half of the problem is over, and under, moderation:

Yes, remove language, censor posts, BUT LEAVE THE POSTS IN PLACE, the main content in place. Just deleting them arbitraily is not conductive to a good environment. Alternativly, the mod/admin who does it MUST post to say, for example, "Just deleted xxx post. Cool it guys. Discuss, but don't flame." or whatever.

Alternativly, try to let people be fairly free... without deleting or moving stuff too much. It helps when you have more categories than just the three you currently have.

Also, the teams thing. Generally, from what I've seen, the various FaD teams liked competing against each other, and the best place for a friendly team-related chat was on the FaD boards, in the section labeled "Team Spirit".

Now, the best place seems to be to visit a different team's forums (we had a vist from the Kights who say Ni! which was fun), which pulls the comunuity away from these boards, and therefore, away from a central meeting place, which means that the comunity will not grow as much as it could.

If you don't belive we did have a community at FaD, look at this:

Our users have posted a total of 136356 articles

The forums are still online (for the moment):
http://www.find-a-drug.org/forums/index.php

Edit: Tweak. Tweak some more. Add a bit here. Makes more sense now :)

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by angus

Vester -

No one is saying you can't be here, contribute to the forums, and crunch for Rosetta. I'm sure the project and everyone else participating appreciates the power that's brought here.

However - I DO resent the fact that a few of the FaD'rs came in here back around January and made a horrendous row for weeks (maybe months) over why this forum couldn't be changed to be like the FaD forum. Now, almost 8 months later, the SAME topic is brought up again. THAT's what ticked ME off, and why I made the post I did.

The project gets to decide what the forum looks like in form and function, and they've made that decision, and put the moderators in place to keep it this way.

Enough said.

you know angus, you exaggerated in january and you exaggerate now. not one ex fadder, me being one of them "made a horrendous row". all we did was make suggestions (which you took as trying to "recreate FaD") to improve the accesibility of information for new people (which we were) the ones who Dr. Baker and the project were trying to recruit. so please get that idea out of your head.

if anyone raised a ruckus it was you, so try to understand our intentions and don't assign your own to them. as was then and as is now, the way information is organized in the rosetta forum (and i hesisitate to call it that) is illogical, messy, and a time waster. the question and answer section which should have the most action for getting help, but it is far outweighed by the number crunching section of the "message board". as someone who needs help, where do you think i'm going first? to the question and answer section, but my problem has alredy been asked and maybe answered in the number crunching section! it's hard to tell because all the titles are iniated by the poster with no subgroupings to tell you what the content is about, so you are left at their mercy to know which thread to read. how productive is that?

[edit] for spelling and formatting as there is still no preview function [/edit]

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Good point about the forum design and limited options... also the lack of personal messages is rather bad.

Is there some sort of requirement that all BOINC projects have to use this design?

www.phpbb.com would be a good (and free) alternative. Has A LOT of styles and you could even make it so that users can choose which style they want to have.

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This is [edit] a partial [/edit] listing of BOINC projects.

These are the message boards:

Chess960@Home

Rectilinear Crossing Number

SZTAKI Desktop Grid

Riesel Sieve, phpBB

SIMAP, phpBB

Predictor@home

Tanpaku

World Community Grid, mvnForum 1.0.0 RC3 (excellent)

Malariacontrol.net

LHC@home

Spinhenge@home, Copyright © 2005 - 2006 Thomas Hilbig, Prof. Dr. rer. nat. Christian Schröder

Quantum Monte Carlo at Home, Copyright © 2006 AK Grimme

SETI@home

Einstein@home

BBC Climate Change Experiment, nice website with loads of information, but no link to message board obvious. I found it with Google. climate predition.net, phpBB

Seasonal Attribution Project

Climateprediction.net, same as Climate Change Experiment above. I found the board three clicks from the BOINC link by entering Participant Pages. phpBB

Just for your knowledge.. Spinhenge and Montecarlo are both running on BOINC's forums, with a few modifications.

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I missed this one.

Quantum Monte Carlo at Home, Copyright © 2006 AK Grimme

It is interesting that the BOINC page listing projects changes the listing order each time I click on the link.

Pirates has an improved BOINC forum here

Spinhenge might switch to phpBB, currently in evaluation phase.

And I just noticed that the BOINC listing which is presented in BOINC Manager for attaching to projects says that it is a partial listing.

Nano-Hive@Home Beta Forum

carl.h said:

Now you are the one taking the argument back to January, no one else. I ask why ?

For the record, VESTER was the one who posted a link to the January thread.

Regardless of how you want to white-wash it, a new group of crunchers who previously ran FaD (any pretty much controlled the forum there, much as a certain group controls the SETI Cafe) came to Rosetta and immediately began to make strident demands to have these forums changed to what they were used to at FaD.

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Proudly Banned from Predictator@Home and now Cosmology@home as well. Added SETI to the list today. Temporary ban only - so need to work harder :)



"You can't fix stupid" (Ron White)